2017 Dodge Viper ACR Extreme - HONEST Owner Review After 30,000 Miles!

😁 2017 Dodge Viper ACR Extreme - Complete Honest Owner Review | Also Owns Porsche & LotusToday I'm riding along with Abe in his 2017 Dodge Viper ACR Extreme. What makes this unique? He also owns a Porsche and Lotus, giving him the perfect perspective to compare this American supercar to the European competition. This is the REAL story about living with 645 horsepower, extreme aero, and the final evolution of an icon.Should YOU buy a Viper ACR Extreme?📊 2017 VIPER ACR EXTREME SPECS: • Engine: 8.4L V10 • Power: 645 HP / 600 LB-FT • Transmission: 6-Speed Manual • Weight: ~3,350 lbs • 0-60: ~3.0 seconds • Extreme Aero Package: 1,700+ lbs downforce • Carbon ceramic brakes • Last year of Viper production • Former Nürburgring production car record holder🚀 Watch This Next: https://youtu.be/k4o-bVW7lH01) LET’S CONNECT! facebook https://www.facebook.com/GaryTheCarNut/ TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@gary.the.car.nut Instagram https://www.instagram.com/garythecarnut/X (Twitter) https://twitter.com/garythecarnut/2) CONTACT!Gary@GaryTheCarNut.com3) Subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/@GaryTheCarNut?sub_confirmation=1

⏱️ CHAPTERS:00:00 – What we cover 01:00 – Purchase Experience 06:20 – Daily Driving 21:32 – Track Driving 35:18 – Money Talk36:37 - Maintenance 46:18 – Viper vs Lotus vs Porsche Turbo 50:34 – Likes & Dislikes 52:33 – Who is this car for? 55:02 – Next Steps 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

What's it really like to track and own for eight years? One of the most extreme production cars ever made. Well, today I'm riding along with Abe in his 2017 Dodge Viper A C R Extreme. A car he actually drives on the street and takes to the track, even though he also owns a Porsche and a Lotus. With 645 horsepower, massive arrow, and a car that Dodge built to dominate racetracks, recovering everything. The buying process, daily driving, track day experiences, ownership costs, what he loves, what drives him crazy, and why he often prefers this over his Porsche Turbo for track days. You currently own uh Porsche and a Lotus. Which ones of those do you own?

SPEAKER_00 0:48

I have a 911 Turbo S, uh 2016 991.1, and a Lotus Empira. How long have you owned this car and those two? This car I've owned since 2017. Uh this was one of the last cars built uh at the factory. Uh I picked it up in August of 2017. And uh so I've owned it since that time.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

And uh Lotus and Lotus is new, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Lotus I've had about six months. Yeah, and the Porsche? The Porsche I've had for uh I think three years. I use the Viper primarily for uh track events.

unknown 1:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Uh uh I I drive it daily, uh uh, you know, sometimes, but you know, the visibility is you know not the greatest, but as a as a commuter vehicle, it doesn't make too much sense because of the the fuel consumption, you know. It just doesn't make sense to drive it back and forth to work all all the time. Although I I do do that.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

But uh so previously you had a GT2 RS.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Did this replace that? No, no. I had uh a 2008 uh GT2. Oh, okay. So there's a 997 GT2. Well what did it replace? You know, I don't remember anymore. You know, because it was eight years ago. I think I think that I added this to the fleet um in 2017. I ordered it in 2016, and I think I was tracking a GTR at that time.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

So what made you decide on getting the uh Viper ACR Xtreme?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

I was uh hoping to get uh an allocation for uh 991 GT3.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Uh but uh even though I offered a kidney, um you know uh I was unable to uh get on the list, and then in 2016 um the Viper uh broke a bunch of records for production cars at various tracks, so I thought that you know what I'll do that. So um I ordered it, and 15 months later it arrived.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

And I know there's a lot of options and a lot of choices you could you could make at that time when you ordered it. What did you choose and what did you decide not to choose?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

You know, you could option these things whatever way you wanted to. I mean, you could put in a a big time stereo and so on and so forth, but you know, I I really wasn't interested in that. I mean, the stereo is not um it's you know, one speaker and it's tinny. You know, but that's that's not really the uh the purpose of the car. It serves my needs. I'm not an audiophile. Um so I I I I I I w I wanted a the color combination of uh blue and uh bronze wheels. I didn't want a stripe, um, and I got a carbon fiber cross brace uh under the hood.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Some of those options were very expensive. I noticed the the stripe, there's two levels of stripe and and they're actually painted on and clear-coated over, and uh they're in the thousands of dollars.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

You know, the Viper would never be mistaken for an understated car. But um, you know, I've never really liked stripes. I've always liked uh, you know, the monochromatic look.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

So walk me through the process. You've decided this is what you want. So you just walk into any Dodge dealer and say, hey, I want a Viper ACR Extreme.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

A very good friend of mine has a leasing company.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

So uh he actually did the deal for me.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

I was shocked to find out that this car actually weighs less than my Porsche 718 Spider. Yes, it does. I was shocked at how light this car is. What kinds of things did they do to make it this light? Well, it's fiberglass. Um is it a carbon fiber?

SPEAKER_00 5:08

No, I think it's fiberglass. I don't think the body's carbon fiber.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Um and it doesn't have much in the way of sound deadening.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Since you've owned the car now for um we say eight years. Right. Um anything you wish you would have spec'd when you originally got it that you didn't? No, you're totally happy with the spec that you got.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Did you get the $800 car cover? No, I didn't. But go ahead. What I find remarkable about uh Chrysler was that I I bought extended warranty, used it up, and renewed it. So it's still under warranty.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Well, these cars were essentially hand-built. Do you know anything about the building process, where they were built, anything like that? They were built in Detroit. And have you done any modifications to the car in the eight years that you got it? So does this car have carbon ceramic brakes?

SPEAKER_00 5:59

It came with carbon ceramic brakes. I swapped them out uh for a gyro disc uh because of the track use, and I didn't want uh and I didn't want the expense of replacing the um uh carbon ceramic.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

I assume uh back when you purchased the car, you didn't have the ability to test drive one before you bought it?

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Not at all.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

So you waited 15, you waited 15 months, you you finally purchased the car, you jumped in. What was that first first drive like? What what what were your first impressions?

SPEAKER_00 6:30

First impression when I first got the car was uh the check engine light came off. Brilliant. I think it was just anyway, it's self-corrected, and uh and there was a learning curve to this car. Yeah. Uh you know, uh uh not so much for driving it in the city, but before the track, there is a a definite learning curve.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Before you even took it to the track and you you just you're just driving it around, driving at home and that kind of thing. Was there anything that surprised you right away? The comfort. You weren't expecting a uh performance car to be this comfortable? Well, the seats are terrific.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

It was basically what I what I had expected. I had a C6 uh Corvette Z06. So, you know, I was already kind of used to a car with uh a long snout. You know, it felt very at home. I think the ergonomics are great. I love the dash. The driver interface on the screen to me is works very well with the UConnect and um and it was just very, very livable. It was just very livable. It's noisy. Um, you know, at around 3,000 RPM it is really quite loud. That's okay. That's I I turned down my hearing aids, but uh uh but but uh otherwise there are no real um there are no real surprises. Um you know right rear, you know, blind spot um is uh is uh a bit tricky and uh uh but uh and and at night in the rain um the headlights from the cars behind you bounce off the support of the wings and it can be a bit it can be a bit confusing. Otherwise, no I mean it it is happy, it's happy and tractable to be driven in the city without any complaints. Often uh people say vipers are dangerous. You agree? No? No? Well, this one isn't. There are two factors to danger. One um the driver, and two the car, and three the conditions.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Good point.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

You know, I mean if you're if you're reasonable, then um the car isn't uh the car is as dangerous or safe as any other car. On the track, it is uh it's different. It's um because of the arrow, the the car is extremely planted and you can feel a bit invincible, you know, because um uh because uh the car is just stuck to the road.

unknown 9:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

It's really quite gratifying. So what about even just looking straight behind you with that massive wing? Uh well the the wing, you don't see the wing in the rearview mirror at all. Oh you don't, really? Not at all. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

What's the longest drive you've ever taken in this car?

SPEAKER_00 10:07

I don't know, five hours, I think.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Oh wow, so that's that's quite a truck.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

And so and so what was it like taking it on on a trip like that?

SPEAKER_00 10:16

It was uh comfortable, not particularly economical. I can I can imagine. But but you know, the the the tank is small, yeah, and the range is smaller. Smaller. And so uh and so you know there are there are frequent f fill-ups, you know. Now the way I uh I I filled the track up yesterday and the range is about 170 miles.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

When we do track days, we typically do four 20-minute sessions a day. But do we get through a whole day on a tank of gas? No. Well, you get through half a day on a tank of gas. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

So two 20-minute sessions. So really two 20-minute uh sessions. But you know, as you know, most of these sessions are you know wide open throttle, you know. So that's why we're there. You know, that's why we're there exactly. Um so you know, when you're on the track, you don't want to go.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Talking about the interior and comparing the interior to Porsches that that you've owned in the past and still do, um, how do you compare this interior to those? Do you find this is a letdown?

SPEAKER_00 11:38

It's just fine. You know, um I've got the gauges, I've got everything's round, you can pull up whatever information you want. When I'm on track, I have these gauges, so going down the back straight, you know, I can just take a look, just have a glance and see that everything's okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

You know, it's got the oral temperature gauge right up, you know, right up where you can see it. And um and all this other and all these other metrics are easily obtainable, and you can monitor things very well. So um so in terms of this information, it's it's more than it's more than what I have uh on the 9-11. In terms of the dash layout, in terms of the ergonomics and comfort, I have no complaints with that.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yeah, you mentioned uh in the video we did about your lotus, you didn't really care for the linear tachometer.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

No. Right? Where this one has a dial. This one has a dial, yeah. And it's right in the middle.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

What do you like best about the exterior of this car?

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Curves.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Curves. Always those curves, guys. Yeah. When you get gas, when you stop somewhere, what kind of reaction do you get from people? Well, there's always lots of entrance.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Yes, you know, so uh what's the most common question? No, well, what kind of car is it? Oh, okay. If it's at a gas station, you know, they'll ask me what's it got, you know, what kind of engine, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But but I get a lot of thumbs up, you know, it's is it seems to make people smile that it's a bit of an an outrageous car, I guess, which is you don't see too frequently.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

And when you give people rides in the car, friends, family, people like that, what kind of comments do they have? I give rides a lot of rides of the track.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

The main comment is that, you know, because of the arrow, you don't need a lot of rake.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

And so and so you can take the turns pretty quickly, and so people are afraid that they're gonna fall out of the car. Very common question is, you know, how fast does it go? And I really have no idea. The fastest I've been in it is 228 kilometers an hour.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Yeah, that's fast. And well that's about 135 miles an hour, I think.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Yeah, but that's on but that's on uh um on the track. So so you know, a comment is that well, I would expect it to be faster, and um, you know, the arrow creates a lot of drag.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Right, right, of course it does.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Uh that's one thing. But the other thing, the one thing that I don't like about the car is uh it's geared tall. Oh, right. So um down the back straight, uh I reach red line in fourth gear at around um quarter seven, you know. Um and then if I reach for fifth gear, it's an overdrive and falls right out of the rev range.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

So, you know, not worth it. You know, so I just keep it in fourth and run it close to the red line um until it's time to break for eight. So you're saying you're entering eight at over 200 kilometers an hour? At the first apex of eight, if I look down carefully, uh very quickly I'm at about 170.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Oh, well, that front splitter is very low, the car is very low. Any problems with scraping or anything like that? Yeah? Oh, sure. Now I did notice that uh this front splitter, the base of the front splitter is carbon fiber, but the actual lip of the um splitter is a different kind of material. Yeah, and I think that's because it can be relatively easily replaced. Right. Yeah, okay. Have you ever replaced it?

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Not yet. No? It's worn and scraped and um Yeah. But if you got a new one, it would be worn and scraped too, right? You know, what are you going to do? Uh you know, so you can take off the the front splitter um when you're driving it around in the city. But I don't, you know, I don't I don't really bother too much. If uh if I if I come up to a speed bump or something, then I I I just approach it at an angle or take it slowly. So so the main so the main uh problem is if you're going up an inclined uh driveway, you'll you'll scrape the bottom of the splinter.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

What about the rear diffuser? It also is quite long and quite deep. And right. And uh, have you ever had any problem with bottoming out of that or back into a curb or anything like that? Not really. No, and it does have a rear view camera, right? So at least that helps. I'm sure that helps uh significantly, right? It certainly does. This car has a lot of Alcantara, Alcantara steering wheel, um, the bottom of the dash, uh, the doors, uh, etc., and the top is leather. Right. Um any concerns about that, or is it seems to have worn well? I mean no concerns. You said you had what 50,000 kilometers? 50,000. Yes, 30,000 miles, so that's uh so obviously it's it's definitely not a garage queen. Right. So describe the V10's power delivery, normally aspirated, no turbos.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

The main feature you notice is noise. Yeah. Like uh air being sucked in. Right. You know, so on the track when you're a full throttle, uh you you just hear the air intake noises. It's exciting. It's like a giant vacuum cleaner. Is there a sweep spot in the rev range or it just goes to red line? There may not be too much value in um in uh running it up all the way to uh red line. Sure. I keep it at red line and fourth going down the back straight just because I don't want to lose the speed. But uh but uh um you know it makes a lot of torque down low, and you know, most of the time it's just fine. And how do you find the transmission? Oh, lovely. Lovely, it's it's a tremic, yeah, and it's very direct, no rubber, no sloth. Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Noisy?

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Um not so much.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

No, no. And difficulty finding any gears or no? No. You know exactly what gear you're going into. Yeah. But what stands out when we get to like the steering and the brakes and things like that?

SPEAKER_00 18:52

The steering, you know, I find to be a bit vague on center. Is this hydraulic steering? Uh I believe it is. I find it, I find it to be a bit vague on center. I mean, the front tire has a I mean the front tire is 295. Yeah. So, you know, a lot of tires. That might have that might have something to do with it. Yeah. Um but it's you know, it's the steering is not the most communicative, but it's, you know, not bad at all. Is it easy to heal and tow? Oh yeah. Yeah, the pedals are set up perfectly.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

No And they're adjustable, aren't they? Yes. The pedals can move with the gas.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Yeah, so so finding um finding a uh a driving, a comfortable driving position is not a problem.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

We were talking a little bit earlier when we were looking at the engine that you actually have a dipstick in this car. Yes, I do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

What a treat. Yeah, I do. It doesn't burn any oil, but nevertheless, it's still nice to have.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

So the side exhaust, uh, I mean, at first when the Viper came out, they were worried about people burning their ankles like they did in the 60s Corvettes. Yes. Um, is there any concern about excess heat from there?

SPEAKER_00 20:12

So from time to time, uh uh people who are unaware have uh have had some thermal encounters, let me say. But only once. I think once or twice, you know. Twice. But um you do have to be careful when exiting, you know. Uh but um it gives it part of the character.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

And the extreme arrow, I assume there's no effect whatsoever on the street, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:47

None. None. But you know, um it develops around, I think, 1700 pounds of down force at 175 miles an hour an hour. I don't go that fast on the track, but I go about a you know at about 135, 140. And uh if anybody uh if any of your viewers know uh Mosport or CTMP, there's a right-hand or corner eight after the uh back straight. And with this, with the arrow, you know, I can stay on it and just touch the brake lightly and turn into eight.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

So take me back. Your first track day, you've waited 15 months for this car, you finally got it, you're excited to take it on track. How was it on your first track day? Well, let me tell you.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

So, so on my first, so I had been tracking the GTR. Oh, right. 4,000 pound car, all wheel drive, all wheel drive, under steers like a pig. So my first time on track with this is um wow, this is what it's like to drive a car that doesn't understeer. You know, it's nice. So there was a definite learning curve with uh with this car in terms of its cornering and its handling and in terms of what to expect turning into a corner. Um and I'm still learning with this. It's really um uh you know, every time I go out to the track, even though I've been coming to Moseport for, you know, over 30 years, I you know, there's a little something I I get and there's a little something that I learn uh about driving and about this car and uh and other things. So it's kind of rewarding in that way.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

And I notice you don't have harnesses. How do these seats uh work at holding you in place?

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Well, um I don't have harnesses because I drive this to work sometimes. And um the seats are okay, but you know, things would definitely be better if I had harnesses for the track because uh I I use my left knee to for uh support and there's a good dead pedal here, you know, so I can push myself uh back in the in in into the seat. But you know, I I I mean if I was the car should uh uh a car of this capability, I think you'd be better off driving with harnesses, even though I don't.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

How do you drive a car with arrow on the track? Everyone says, well, Gary, you have to drive it faster so the arrow works to push the car down and all that kind of thing. Okay, great. So just as you're getting faster and faster and faster, the arrow's working more so you can just carry more speed into the corner? Is it as simple as that?

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Well, so it doesn't repeal the laws of physics. Yeah. Right? I was expecting that. Um uh but um but because of the amount of uh compression, you know, you just don't break as much. Right. You know, I I you know, you hear uh the folks driving the radicals, you know, who who don't lift. And I can understand that. You know, uh I don't have the testicular fortitude to uh to be able to uh uh drive like that and and I really want to drive this to work uh and around town. So um, but you know, um a set of brake pads will last me a couple of years.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

So I was surprised to see that there were six lug wheels, right? And I thought, why would a 3,400-pound car have six lug wheels? And then I realized the arrow, the 1700 pounds acting on top of it, all of a sudden it's a five uh four five thousand pound car.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

So that and that accounts for the spring rates too. Uh you know, I think the spring rates in back around 1,500 uh pounds per inch kind of thing, and it's because of the uh and it's because of the uh arrow.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

So there's a lot of settings that can take place in this car in terms of the the ride height, the suspension settings. We talked about the pedals, we talked about did it take a long time to get it dialed in? No.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Because uh the owner's manual comes with a track manual that gives you the recommended height, rake, and alignment.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

So that's where I started off at. And um and so um we keep an eye on tire wear and how the tires are wearing and uh and adjust our uh alignment uh uh accordingly, you know. Uh and I assume tire pressures is the tires. Yeah, so so the tire pressures um you know I used to start off starting uh starting a 27 cold and then having them warm up to about 32, 33. But um uh at AutoWorks, when they were looking at the tires, they're saying, hey, you know, you're sliding a fair bit. Um you could probably use a bit more pressure. And so I've been starting off at 30, and and the tire consumption has improved dramatically.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Okay. And so where are you ending up hot? Uh you know, close uh you know, high 30s. High 30s, okay. And have you ever adjusted the front splitter or the rear spoiler or any of that? No.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

You know, the Chrysler Engineers, in my opinion, did a superb job of engine engineering this thing. Right. And there was a YouTube video uh that I watched, I don't know how many thousands of times, about uh where a Chrysler engineer was explaining how to set the car up for track.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Oh wow, cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

So you know it was uh it it was built with intent to for our demographic.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Have you ever had a Porsche with carbon ceramics? GT3? Yeah? Yes, I have. So when you had carbon ceramics on this car, um was it similar to the carbon ceramics that that uh you you had with the Porsche in terms of performance?

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Yeah, but I never tracked, I never um the GT2 I had, the 2008 GT2, had carbon ceramics, and and I I tracked with those, and they lasted about two years. Um when I got my 991 uh GT3, um they had steel brakes, and when I got this, I put on the gyro discs almost right away. Um so the carbon ceramics, you know, probably have less than 500 kilometers on them.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Oh, so you've kept them?

SPEAKER_00 28:30

I kept them. Oh absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

What about traction control? Does this have different levels of traction control or uh it does?

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Um I've uh I've never fooled around with it. I uh I leave traction control on, it's never come on. Right. Um and uh I leave it on because um well it just doesn't interfere, number one. Number two is that there's uh usually once in a vent somebody drops coolant or oil, and you know, I was once in the situation where I I got you know bent out of shape um coming into eight after uh a GT3 dumped coolant, and uh you know I was in um I was in the car and uh I I you know I gathered it up, but the uh but the traction control but the electronics certainly helped, and that's why I leave it on.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

So you mentioned that you had changed the brakes uh and you'd gone from um the ceramics to um gyro gyro discs, right? You know, that kind of thing. Was it a disappointment? Like when you made that move, was it like oh man? No, not at all. So this car has specific tires made for it by Kumo, right? Have you ever tried any other tires for it? No.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

And uh and I assume they work incredibly well? They work incredibly well. I I'm very happy, I'm very happy with the tire. The main problem with the tire is that they're not being imported into Canada anymore. Right. So I have to uh bring them in from the US.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Any idea how long a set of tires last? Like track day wise?

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Well, track day wise, um, I can get a couple of events out of them.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

A couple events? Yeah, like so like four to six track days type of thing? Four days maybe. We talked about already is isn't the quietest car?

SPEAKER_00 30:40

No.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

And uh so so do you ever have any problems with the neighbors or family members or anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Um, no.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Um well what about when you first start up the car? No, no, nobody has complained. Okay, so let's talk uh specifically about track days. I know we touched on some of those things already. So uh one of the things I noticed was this double bubble. Right. And uh how tall are you, Abe? 5'10. 5'10.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

And uh so with your helmet, you have no problem? Difficult ingress and egress at the best of times. But with a helmet, there are some contortions you have to go through, but once I'm seated, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Oh, I'm 6'1, and I feel like there's uh plenty of room. Like, I don't think I would have problems with the helmet. Umce I'm in here, right? I I see getting in and getting out might be a different story. That's yeah, that's exactly it. So why do you prefer this compared to the the uh turbo? Like, like, like what little thing or big thing is different? I know this has more horsepower, I know that the turbo is all-wheel drive, I know the turbo's heavier, I know this is lighter.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Well, before I had the turbo, I had um I did eventually have a 991 uh GT3. Right. And uh, you know, the way the way I describe it to people is that uh, you know, the car always says, you know, says to me, Boy, don't worry, I got your back. The 911 says, I like you, but I might kill you. Oh but if it rains, I'll be your friend. Well, the 911 Turbo is, you know, not really a comparable.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

No, no, it's it's a it's a different car. Right. It's a luxurious car.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

It's a luxury car GT that that I've kind of modified to be able to perform well on on track, but it it it's not it was not the intent of the car. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

So when we look at lap times of classic uh tracks like the Nurberg ring, you look at um VIR, you look at places like Lagunasic and things like that, you can see that the Porsche, that this car is actually as fast or about as fast as the GT3RSs, uh GT3s, and things like that. When you track this car in a real-world situation, I know that in our run group there are GT3s and GT3RSs. Do you find that you're kind of in the fight with them? Not bad choice of words, maybe, but performance-wise?

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Well, I'll tell you. So I run I run the Kumos on this on the street and on and on the track. And with the 991 GG3 RS, if if they're uh running uh Cup twos, I'm probably a bit quicker. If they're running Slicks, forget about it. And with the uh 992 GT3RS, forget about it. Part of the reason is uh part uh part of the reason is that um you know this car is uh geared tall and it just doesn't have um but you know I did notice in our run group that uh I gave uh a GT3RS a point by at the end of the back straight, uh, but I caught up to him and eight in the essence. Oh really? In eight by ten.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Oh, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

So um the GT3RS has uh I think probably a bit more down force than this, but it has a uh a DRS-like system, so on the back straight. So I caught um I caught the GT3RS, but once he got onto the uh front straight, it was out of the archie.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

And by the way, if you're enjoying this honest owner review with Abe and his uh Viper here today, I encourage you to subscribe to my YouTube channel, and you can also check out uh when we did Abe's Honest Owner Review of his Lotus Amira. Lots of fun in that one too. Back in 2017, I I saw the base price of these was 120,000 US dollars, but a lot of them were option to 150, 160 um and that kind of thing. US, yeah, exactly. Uh do you remember how much you paid back then? 155 Canadian. And was that 155 Canadian all in? Like that's with options? That's with all the options and so on and so forth, and yada yada. Well, currently um I see these uh Viper ACR Extreme selling on bring a tail uh trailer for like 250,000 US dollars. Uh so you're making money. Well, probably not this car.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

True, a lot of those have 96 kilometers miles on them, yeah. Yeah, probably not this car. This car has uh 50,000 kilometers on it. Right. You know, it's got some patina and some you know stone chips in the hood and so on and so forth. So this is not a concourse car.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

No.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

I mean, it's been fanatically maintained, I gotta tell you. Um but uh but in terms of cosmetics and stuff, um uh you know, it's it's not a collector car.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

It's nice to see it hasn't depreciated by 50%. Unless you're selling it, it doesn't mean anything. Yeah, you know, like so what? What's your maintenance schedule on this car in terms of spark plugs, uh fluid changes, uh, you know, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

I have a a technician who's uh a ViperTech, and he he has several vipers himself. So he knows these cars uh back and forth. So I run a bit of a a thicker oil, like 1540 or something like that. Right. And uh and we put in uh a different uh differential fluid, and I change I change the oil and the diff fluid um every other event.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Oh wow, that awful.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Diff fluid too.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Diff fluid too.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

Wow, right.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

The diff fluid, the differentials on the Viper are a bit of a Achilles heel.

unknown 37:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

And uh and they're prone to whining. Oh, okay. And so that's mitigated by uh by uh changing the fluid. And those 10 spark plugs? Change them when you know Simon tells me to change them. Oh, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Simon says. Simon says, Abe does. So any unexpected repairs or or things that have come out?

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Wow, that's fantastic. There are a few things that were changed on warranty. Um had uh leaking shock and stuff like that. Right. You know, stuff that didn't uh sideline the car, right? Which they noticed, but um but otherwise no, nothing at all. Most expensive maintenance item or anything that caught you off guard? It's only been fluids. I you know, I s I've spent a lot of money on tires.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Yeah, no, not for sure. But it's only been fluids. And what about insurance costs to run this car similar to Porsche? Yeah. So in doing some research uh on these cars, uh, one of the the concerns or things that's mentioned quite often is um heat. Heat in the in the cabin. Do you notice that? No? Even on track days when Oh, track days. Well, I mean, everybody's hot on track day, but I mean, is this significantly hotter than other cars?

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Uh I don't know. I don't know if it's significantly hotter. You know, um on a hot track day, I run it with the air on, but you know, you're at full throttle most of the time, so I'm not sure the compressors work. You know, it's engineered to work at throttle at full throttle. So so those are hot. Whereas, you know, when I drive the 9-11, if it's hot, my seats are air conditioned.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

So I have, you know, air-conditioned seats, and the air works pretty well, even even on track uh with the uh with the 9-11. What about the clutch? Do you find it feels very heavy or not so much?

SPEAKER_01 39:38

It's it's got a lovely feel. So we talked a little bit earlier about uh uh visibility with the car and things like that. So how do you deal with things like blind spot and things like you just anticipate more?

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Well, um I have you know, um I added some convex uh side mirrors, yeah, which helps uh a lot. Um I'd like to get a video uh uh a blind spot camera. There's a company called Wolfbox. Yeah. And so they have a system that I might look into next.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Well, any paint quality concerns, fit and finish? I remember I know you mentioned you just had the car PPF'd. Um but uh any any concerns?

SPEAKER_00 40:23

No, not at all. After eight years I got the car PPF'd. That's been the biggest expense for the car.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

So if you look back over the years since you've owned this car, do you feel the the cost of ownership and the initial uh cost was justified?

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Oh sure. Oh, I think the car is good value for the money in terms of what it delivers and in terms of you know, in terms of what it delivers, in terms of how it's built and the engineering and design. Yeah, I don't know. I have no uh problems with any of that.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

Yeah, we talked a little bit earlier about um harnesses and uh safety devices specifically on on track. Why is it you don't use uh harnesses?

SPEAKER_00 41:17

You know, my raison d'tra uh is to take a car that I drive on the street and take it to the track and have fun with it, then drive home. Right. Because you don't trailer it to it. I don't trailer it. And so, you know, I would be quicker, I'm sure, we all would be if we were harnessed in and so on and so forth. But to me, it, you know, it kind of it kind of it's it's too much already, you know. It's not why it's not why I mean I track a lot during the year, but it's it's not why, you know, being the quickest is not why I I go. I just want to enjoy my car. So you know, so if it means I go a little bit slower and have less headaches in using the car day to day, then then I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Yeah, no, no, no, it makes uh makes perfect sense. Do you find getting in and out of the car difficult? A bit. A bit? And and why is that? Well, the car is low and I have a bad right knee.

unknown 42:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

So me getting out of the car is not a picture of grace. Let me put it to you that way. You know, I I I think that um the current crop of track-focused streetcars are really quite wonderful. You know, the the 992 GT3RS, I think, is a brilliant piece of uh, you know, just uh just brilliantly done. But as a but as a car, you know, as a usable vehicle, it it has no space to carry stuff.

unknown 43:15

No.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Um the Z06, yeah, I think is a spectacular car. And uh and same thing with the Mustang uh GTD, but the uh GT3RS I think is um is the pinnacle.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Some of the modern driver aids, like launch control or um uh different uh shock settings or firmness settings or sport settings uh uh on this car. Oh, this car does have launch control, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Yeah, this car does have launch control because there's a button here that says launch. I know nothing about it.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Right, right, yeah. Yeah, why beat up the car if you don't need it, right? You know, to me it's you know looking back over the years was the initial Price and the amount of money you spent mostly on tires to have this car, was it worth it? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Yeah. Yeah. I think of all the cars I I I've owned, this is the car that I've owned the longest, and it's still a thrill to me.

unknown 44:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

So um you mentioned something about shocks. Um so um I I think that uh you know having different settings I think is a compromise because in my simplistic view of things is that the shocks should be mated to the uh springs, and if the shock settings are changing, you might lose some of the uh compatibility. I don't know if that's true or not, and there might be a range, uh etc. etc. But I like the fact that this has non-adjustable shocks.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

Yeah, you'd think that somebody, some engineer that specifically has done this for years and years would be able to dial it in more easily than you and I put in.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

Yeah, you know, twisting buttons and so on and so forth. So I mean the shocks you you can adjust manually adjust uh bump and rebound.

unknown 45:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:25

Uh, and there are different settings for that. But you know, the factory provided me with settings, and that's good enough for me.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

So you mentioned you have a specialist that you take the car that take the car to. Are those specialists few and far between, you think? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

You know, um uh uh Simon um works for a Chrysler dealer and was my viper mechanic at at uh the dealership, but also does some uh work at home. So that's where that's where I take it. The thing is, is that he's um so knowledgeable about the car, yeah. You know, about about about all the ins and outs, and um so I feel quite fortunate.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

So when it comes to pure driving enjoyment, when you talk about this car, you talk about your Porsche or your Lotus, uh where do they all fit in? Like, is it you get maximum driving enjoyment based on how you use it, or like so they do different things.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Sure. The Lotus is wonderful to drive all the time. I don't have much experience with it on track, although although I although I do have some. Um but it is just in terms of its tactility and feedback and involvement, even at street speeds, to me is what's what's wonderful about the car. This car, driving it in the city is uh you know a waste of its talent, I think. Yeah, sure. It'll do it, but it's not what it's built for. And but when I go to the track, it's just to me, it's still it's still a thrill. And the 9-11's a good grand touring car. Uh it's good on the track, it's good in the city, it's a good all-rounder. You know, so I I'm fortunate to have uh, you know, uh a vehicle that will match what I want. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 47:50

No, no, I get it.

unknown 47:50

I get it.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

So you mentioned earlier you've had this car longer than you've had any other car. Right. So would you say this is your favorite? Yes. So the Viper is raw, the Porsche is refined.

unknown 48:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

The lotus is That's a really good question.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

The lotus is supple. Um it has that finesse? Sorry? That finesse. A finesse, yeah. It has a certain litheness to it and uh playfulness.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

Well, talk about track driving because you do most of your track driving with this car, and of course, so with your Porsche. And uh, would you describe your Porsche as being easy to drive on track? Sure. And would you describe this car to be difficult to drive on track? No. No? Still easy? Still easy?

SPEAKER_00 48:37

Yeah. Just different in the sense of this car has a lot of arrow and mechanical grip. Like you know, I am I am sure that in the hands of uh a really good driver, uh, you know, a professional, that they could get a lot more out of this car than uh than I am. But but for an old guy like me, you know, this is this is giving me enough thrill.

SPEAKER_01 49:08

Oh no, absolutely. Driving both cars on track at eight tenths, which one feels more conf confidence inspiring? At eight tenths? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

This this compared to the uh 9-11? Yeah. At eight tenths, they're they're both about the same. Nine tenths? Nine tenths. The higher up you go, the more comfortable this is because of arrow.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

Would you say running this car on track costs more than running the Porsche on track, mostly because of the tires? Yeah. But brakes that are similar?

SPEAKER_00 49:44

Yeah, I mean, I mean uh Mosport is the track that I drive, you know, almost exclusively. Uh, you know, I I I don't have the the uh I don't go out of town much. Right, right. You know, I I have been out of town, but you know, it's um so you know uh most port is not a heavy track for on brakes. Right. It's a fast, fast track. Yeah, it's a fast track, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

Again, talking about the three cars, do friends and family understand why you have to have these three cars? Oh no. Do you care?

SPEAKER_00 50:26

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

What would be your three favorite likes about this car? The looks, the handling, and the acceleration. So you mentioned uh when we asked you about uh what you the three things you like best about the Lotus. Right. Um one of the things was looks. This car, you also mentioned looks. Right. So is it because obviously they two look totally different, the two cars. So is it because the Lotus looks great for what kind of car it is, and this looks great for what kind of car this is?

SPEAKER_00 51:01

Yeah, yeah, you know they're different, you know, they're they're different cars, they're designed differently. The Lotus has a classical mid-engine look to it, yeah, and this has a classical front engine look uh to it, you know, long snout, 50-50, you know, mid-front engine. Yeah, and um, you know, I mean, I'm sure if you look deep down, you can find something phallic and sexual.

SPEAKER_01 51:35

Well, we won't go there today. But we won't go there today. That's right. So, what are the three least your three least favorite things about this car?

SPEAKER_00 51:44

The visibility is uh is the main one. Uh it's not very wieldy in the city, it's got a huge turning circle. Yeah. And um and you do have to be careful when exiting the car to not burn yourself.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

So the most rewarding aspect of ownership of this car?

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Uh for me it's its trackability. Trackability.

unknown 52:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

And best exp best driving experience you've ever had in this car. One of the best times I had with this car was on track, and there was another uh instructor who had uh uh Mustang 350R, and we were going at it.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

Who is this car specifically for? A car enthusiast. It's it's a gorgeous car and looks great, but I think the day-to-day experience of driving it would be hard for a composer to live with.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Hardcore cargo.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

Yeah, so a colleague of mine uh heard I was getting a Viper, so he decided to get one too. But he's not a track guy, and um it was you know not a great experience for him, I guess. He he got he got rid of it um sh you know a few months after he got it. Uh advice for someone considering getting one of these? Just make sure you know what you're getting and and and that it's uh in good health. I mean the engines are pretty robust. Um but you know you have to be sure that my advice to people is be sure you want it. Because it's it's it's not a um it's not uh an easy drive in the city. Not because of the you know, it's not temperamental, it's just the design just isn't you know visibility's an issue. Sure. Etc. etc. Storage space is actually not too bad.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

Yeah, yeah, no, that's true. We had a look at the trunk earlier. And uh so if for some reason you didn't have this car anymore, god forbid something happens to it or whatever, um, what would you replace it with if you had to replace this car right now?

SPEAKER_00 54:27

Then I would probably get a Z06. Z06 and UC8, Z06? Uh and U C8 Z06. I had when the GT3RS came out, I expressed an interest in one. But uh the 992 the 992 GT3RS, but um you know, because I wasn't uh preferred customer, there were all kinds of conditions I would have to at lease a portion Taken for a year or or buy an Eevee McConn, you know, figure, you know what, that's I'm not interested in that.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

If you enjoyed this deep dive owner review, smash that like button and subscribe for more honest car content. Click here for Abe's Lotus Amira Honest Owner Review, and I'll see you there. Let me know in the comments below which one would be in your dream garage the Viper ACR Extreme, the Porsche Turbo, or the Lotus, and why.